Отзывы о Материнская плата GIGABYTE Z390 DESIGNARE (rev. 1.0)
596 отзывов пользователей o GIGABYTE Z390 DESIGNARE (rev. 1.0)
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Amazon Customer
04.12.2020
6/10
Оценка пользователя
Плохо
Nice solid board with plenty of I/O however, due to the lack of Gigabytes inclusion of both Thunderbolt chipsets, the Thunderbolt 3 ports can only support Thunderbolt 3 and 2 devices (by way of adaptor) but DOES NOT support Thunderbolt 1 devices (regardless of adaptor type). This is despite Intel supposedly making the Thunderbolt protocol fully backwards compatible. Gigabyte subsequently solved the issue but now the problem is Intel won't "sign" [read:endorse] the updated drivers for commercial release.
Amazon Customer
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
This is a high quality previous generation motherboard, which goes very well with the i9 9900K processor. 5 stars to the seller, who was very helpful in recommending part compatibility... Very well packed.
Linyl
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
My first build and it just worked. Paired with I9-9900K it POSTed without a bios update and recognized all hardware. Flashed Windows 10 in just a few minutes through USB3. Specs are as described and are reasonably future proof. I did have to add an internal USB 2 hub to run both Kraken X62 and the fan hub as mobo only has one USB 2. RGB is suitably subdued and instructions for M2\ PCIE and SATA compatability are clear.
Clayton
04.12.2020
8/10
Оценка пользователя
Хорошо
This motherboard is great for a hackintosh. Found it very easy to get working. Might be a little overkill for most people unless you need thunderbolt. I like it and I'll keep using.
Miguel Aldana
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
Excelente MB para hackintosh Mojave, solo no funcionan el wifi y bluetooth pero tiene fácil solución
mario bouffard
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
Super content, fonctionne très bien
Jose Manuel
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
Excelente!!
Francois Poirier
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
Pour logiciel de musique avec port Thunderbolt natif sur la carte mère. Parfait 🤓
Amazon カスタマー
04.12.2020
6/10
Оценка пользователя
Плохо
構成は
電源 Corsair HX1200i 80PLUS PLATINUM 1200W
CPU Corei9-9900K
クーラーCorsair H150i PRO RGB 水冷CPUクーラー
SSD GIGABYTE AORUS RGB M.2 NVMe SSD 512GB
グラボ GIGABYTE NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080
メモリ CMK32GX4M2D3200C16
マザボ 発注日 2019/06/21のこれ
簡単に言うと部品に対しBIOSが古かった？
初期はF5ですがwin10proのインストールができませんね、画面切り替え時にフリーズです
QフラッシュでF6にupdateしたら嘘の様にすんなりインストール完了しました
初心者だと地雷扱いになるので販売店も気を付けた方が良い。
ダメなところは、ボード上のUSB９ピン入力ヘッダーが一個しか無、現状でコルセアリンクは無効状態（HUBで対応する予定）、自分は４T級のHDDを５台とBDプレイヤーを接続するんですがSATAスロットも足りないですね、これも増設予定です。
気に入った点は、ハイレゾ対応のオーディオでハイインピーダンスハイレゾヘッドフォンが使用できるんですが、今時のこの価格帯のマザボなら当たり前でしょうか？ Thunderboltのマルチデバイスも興味はありますね
気になった点はフルサイズのマザボのせいかM2MスロットでM.２が認識できなかった事です、F6BIOSでは試していませんがねｗ
電源 Corsair HX1200i 80PLUS PLATINUM 1200W
CPU Corei9-9900K
クーラーCorsair H150i PRO RGB 水冷CPUクーラー
SSD GIGABYTE AORUS RGB M.2 NVMe SSD 512GB
グラボ GIGABYTE NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080
メモリ CMK32GX4M2D3200C16
マザボ 発注日 2019/06/21のこれ
簡単に言うと部品に対しBIOSが古かった？
初期はF5ですがwin10proのインストールができませんね、画面切り替え時にフリーズです
QフラッシュでF6にupdateしたら嘘の様にすんなりインストール完了しました
初心者だと地雷扱いになるので販売店も気を付けた方が良い。
ダメなところは、ボード上のUSB９ピン入力ヘッダーが一個しか無、現状でコルセアリンクは無効状態（HUBで対応する予定）、自分は４T級のHDDを５台とBDプレイヤーを接続するんですがSATAスロットも足りないですね、これも増設予定です。
気に入った点は、ハイレゾ対応のオーディオでハイインピーダンスハイレゾヘッドフォンが使用できるんですが、今時のこの価格帯のマザボなら当たり前でしょうか？ Thunderboltのマルチデバイスも興味はありますね
気になった点はフルサイズのマザボのせいかM2MスロットでM.２が認識できなかった事です、F6BIOSでは試していませんがねｗ
choko
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
9900K，64GB，RTX2070の環境で使用しています。特に問題なく安定して動作しています。
IO系が充実していてかつあまりピカピカしないのが〇です。編集等していて外部ストレージを多用している、接続機器が多いという方にお勧めです。
Wifi、BluetoothアダプタはAC 9560です。見た感じ交換可能なようですね。アンテナは磁石がついていて便利です。机裏に逆さに張り付けて使っています。
注意点としてはUSB2.0ヘッダピンが一つしかないのでケースのフロントにコネクタをすべて取られていると水冷クーラーなどで必要になった際に困るのでその場合は内部ハブを合わせて購入されることをお勧めします。
IO系が充実していてかつあまりピカピカしないのが〇です。編集等していて外部ストレージを多用している、接続機器が多いという方にお勧めです。
Wifi、BluetoothアダプタはAC 9560です。見た感じ交換可能なようですね。アンテナは磁石がついていて便利です。机裏に逆さに張り付けて使っています。
注意点としてはUSB2.0ヘッダピンが一つしかないのでケースのフロントにコネクタをすべて取られていると水冷クーラーなどで必要になった際に困るのでその場合は内部ハブを合わせて購入されることをお勧めします。
ぶー・ぶーとん
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
何よりもパッケージからマザーボード本体の付属品に至るまで、そのデザインがカッコイイ。
初めてCore i9-9900Kを導入するにあたり、マザーボードをいろいろ見ていましたが、そんな時見つけたこの製品に一目惚れしました。機能性とデザイン性を両立するVRM周りに、M.2のシンプルでスタイリッシュなヒートシンク。マザーボード自体のライティングもスマートで控えめ、他のパーツの邪魔をしません。純粋にゲーミング用途やRGBライティング(いわゆる魅せるPC)に力を入れるのであれば、同社製のZ390 AORUS MASTERをおすすめします。ほぼ同価格の2製品のVRM周りはパッと見似ていますが、MASTERのはOC向けで仕組みが大きく異なります。また、MASTERのM.2スロットとヒートシンクはx3で余裕があり(とはいえSATAポートやM.2スロット同士の競合があるので要注意)、オーディオもより上位品で、(大事な人には本当に大事な)Addressable RGB Headerも付いています。
本製品は第9世代Intel CPUの安定した運用を視野に入れつつも、ビデオカードの機能拡張や外部機器との接続に特化した、(プロアマ問わず)クリエイター向けのハイエンドマザーボードだと思います。クリエイティブな日々を過ごし、4K以上のモニターや液晶タブレットなどを積極的に活用できる方に向いています(因みに僕はどちらも持ち腐らせているので向いていません)。特定の機能に特化しているため汎用性に欠ける部分があり、その「特定の機能」に対して必要性を感じられなければ無意味な投資となります。コストパフォーマンスや将来性、必要性が気になるという方は、ぜひメーカーサイトで詳細な情報を確認の上で購入することをおすすめ致します。
初めてCore i9-9900Kを導入するにあたり、マザーボードをいろいろ見ていましたが、そんな時見つけたこの製品に一目惚れしました。機能性とデザイン性を両立するVRM周りに、M.2のシンプルでスタイリッシュなヒートシンク。マザーボード自体のライティングもスマートで控えめ、他のパーツの邪魔をしません。純粋にゲーミング用途やRGBライティング(いわゆる魅せるPC)に力を入れるのであれば、同社製のZ390 AORUS MASTERをおすすめします。ほぼ同価格の2製品のVRM周りはパッと見似ていますが、MASTERのはOC向けで仕組みが大きく異なります。また、MASTERのM.2スロットとヒートシンクはx3で余裕があり(とはいえSATAポートやM.2スロット同士の競合があるので要注意)、オーディオもより上位品で、(大事な人には本当に大事な)Addressable RGB Headerも付いています。
本製品は第9世代Intel CPUの安定した運用を視野に入れつつも、ビデオカードの機能拡張や外部機器との接続に特化した、(プロアマ問わず)クリエイター向けのハイエンドマザーボードだと思います。クリエイティブな日々を過ごし、4K以上のモニターや液晶タブレットなどを積極的に活用できる方に向いています(因みに僕はどちらも持ち腐らせているので向いていません)。特定の機能に特化しているため汎用性に欠ける部分があり、その「特定の機能」に対して必要性を感じられなければ無意味な投資となります。コストパフォーマンスや将来性、必要性が気になるという方は、ぜひメーカーサイトで詳細な情報を確認の上で購入することをおすすめ致します。
Amazon カスタマー
04.12.2020
2/10
Оценка пользователя
Ужасно
省電力でしか動かない不良品をつかまされた。
Matthew Stallone
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
Really good MB for hackintosh!
Kevin Sullivan
04.12.2020
8/10
Оценка пользователя
Хорошо
This is a nice motherboard for content creator, rather than for the gamers that most motherboards target. This MB provides high bandwidth to PCIe-8 NVMe. I added a 2TB Samsung NVMe for boot, OS, and scratch; and larger SATA SSDs for the rest of my storage. With a core i9-9900k and 64GB of DDR4 running at 3200, the machine moves along. With the right Noctua cooler, it also runs pretty quietly. One component, however, turned out to be completely useless: the analog audio output. It's is described as having a 112db SNR. Yeah, maybe -- if you run it in a completely unrealistic electromagnetically quiet environment. In the real world of a PC with a high-frequency and high-powered CPU, a high-frequency memory system, and so forth, the analog audio subsystem outputs a veritable orchestral suite of weird and disturbing noises: fuzzes, buzzes, squeaks, and squaws. The noise is so loud it makes music listening untenable. I had to buy an external DAC and a separate small amp in order to bypass the completely useless analog audio subsystem of this MB. Would I buy it again? Yeah, for all its other features. Just don't rely on the analog audio.
Simon Belmont
04.12.2020
4/10
Оценка пользователя
Ужасно
This is one of the most popular motherboards to run macOS on, if you don't have a Mac. MacOS is not officially supported for this board, however, a ton of people are buying this board because it is relatively easy to set up with macOS and has Thunderbolt 3 on the board (therefore, Gigabyte should at least try to fix these issues, even though macOS is not supported, because that's a big portion of their clientele, whether intended or not).
HOWEVER, there are 3 issues to keep in mind:
1) USB drives will eject and fail to remount if you set memory speeds above 2666 MHz, even if your memory is on the list of supported vendors etc. The only way around this to keep memory at a max of 2666 MHz or set your computer to never sleep, which makes it a huge power hog, especially when powering a power hungry processor like an I9-9900K.
Scripts and apps don't fix the problem.
2) Thunderbolt doesn't support Local Node in macOS. It shows up as PCI. The issue is that if a peripheral required Local Node to work (like some audio interfaces), it might not function with this motherboard.
3) Thunderbolt backwards compatability issues have been reported.
Tech support takes several days to respond, so I can't say it's good.
If anything changes (such as Gigabyte updating the BIOS to fix these issues and doing a good job of notifying customers), I will gladly update my review and add stars back. Until then, consider these issues unsolved.
HOWEVER, there are 3 issues to keep in mind:
1) USB drives will eject and fail to remount if you set memory speeds above 2666 MHz, even if your memory is on the list of supported vendors etc. The only way around this to keep memory at a max of 2666 MHz or set your computer to never sleep, which makes it a huge power hog, especially when powering a power hungry processor like an I9-9900K.
Scripts and apps don't fix the problem.
2) Thunderbolt doesn't support Local Node in macOS. It shows up as PCI. The issue is that if a peripheral required Local Node to work (like some audio interfaces), it might not function with this motherboard.
3) Thunderbolt backwards compatability issues have been reported.
Tech support takes several days to respond, so I can't say it's good.
If anything changes (such as Gigabyte updating the BIOS to fix these issues and doing a good job of notifying customers), I will gladly update my review and add stars back. Until then, consider these issues unsolved.
DJ Broadbent
04.12.2020
4/10
Оценка пользователя
Ужасно
My package arrived unsealed, which is normal, but the anti-static bag was taped shut and everything seemed fine, until I went to use it and several of the pins on the CPU slot are damaged, which is a common problem in boards that have been used. It was unfortunately past the return window by the time I started to assemble the computer, so I had to pay a local shop $60 to repair the board to use it. I don't know if it was just bad luck or someone else's returned board but the extra time and money did not make for a great purchasing experience.
Matt
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
It's truly wonderful to have a motherboard product in the marketplace that doesn't reference GAMING. Don't get me wrong, I love(d) gaming... probably a little too much. Trying to get some distance between those days and my current semi-adult mentality. This is a small deal in the grand scheme, but for me, it was a big part of the buying decision.
It also seems like an Aorus Extreme, minus a feature or two, with slightly less overclock-ability. My OC'ing days are behind me, so no worries there.
THINGS I LIKE (or imagine I will like)
- I'm excited to try the Thunderbolt capability so I can cut down on cables running from my case.
- The wifi is stellar so far. One cool thing to note is that the antenna is totally not needed if you're in the same room with your wireless router.
- DAC-specific USB, which will soon be tested with my DAC!
- Some lights, but classy and understated
- Fired right up, 1st try, no issues
THINGS I DON'T LIKE
- I wish it had right angle power connectors, but until case manufacturers and MoBo companies standardize their connector/cutout locations, it's a bit of a gamble for a company to offer that (EVGA z390 Dark for instance). I would love not having to wrench on power cables to get them to turn the corner and play nice, but c'est la vie
- using an M2 slot disables 1-2 of the SATA ports. Not a big deal for almost anyone. I use zero SATA ports anyway
- Not sure what the goop is inside the M2 shields. It was not explained in the manual. Thermal paste of some sort?
- I hear the displayport is INPUT-ONLY. No big deal
- I hear the DAC port can cause issues with certain dacs and that disabling USB power suspension didn't necessarily solve said issues (I'll update this review if that's the case for me)
All of the cons listed above are either speculative or minor in the grand scheme. If a MoBo fires up flawlessly on the first try, that's half the battle. The other half will arrive 5-10 years down the road when we see how well it's holding up. No one will be buying these by then, so all I can do is work it hard for the next 6 months and chime back in if anything breaks. So far so good.
It also seems like an Aorus Extreme, minus a feature or two, with slightly less overclock-ability. My OC'ing days are behind me, so no worries there.
THINGS I LIKE (or imagine I will like)
- I'm excited to try the Thunderbolt capability so I can cut down on cables running from my case.
- The wifi is stellar so far. One cool thing to note is that the antenna is totally not needed if you're in the same room with your wireless router.
- DAC-specific USB, which will soon be tested with my DAC!
- Some lights, but classy and understated
- Fired right up, 1st try, no issues
THINGS I DON'T LIKE
- I wish it had right angle power connectors, but until case manufacturers and MoBo companies standardize their connector/cutout locations, it's a bit of a gamble for a company to offer that (EVGA z390 Dark for instance). I would love not having to wrench on power cables to get them to turn the corner and play nice, but c'est la vie
- using an M2 slot disables 1-2 of the SATA ports. Not a big deal for almost anyone. I use zero SATA ports anyway
- Not sure what the goop is inside the M2 shields. It was not explained in the manual. Thermal paste of some sort?
- I hear the displayport is INPUT-ONLY. No big deal
- I hear the DAC port can cause issues with certain dacs and that disabling USB power suspension didn't necessarily solve said issues (I'll update this review if that's the case for me)
All of the cons listed above are either speculative or minor in the grand scheme. If a MoBo fires up flawlessly on the first try, that's half the battle. The other half will arrive 5-10 years down the road when we see how well it's holding up. No one will be buying these by then, so all I can do is work it hard for the next 6 months and chime back in if anything breaks. So far so good.
Daily Account
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
I purchased two of these motherboards to upgrade our "Hackintosh" systems. Everything works fine, no issues whatsoever. This board is definitely a few notches about their Z370 Gaming 5 board it replaced in both systems. Highly recommended for regular PC or Hackintosh builds.
Dee McKinney
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
While I am running the Designare in my current Hackintosh build, this MB with built in Titan controller and dual Thunderbolt ports, dual 1GB Nic's, and dual M.2 slots has the thumbs up! I use the Intel i9-9900K with it and it works great. Very sturdy and feels and looks well made. I recommend this motherboard as everyone needs Thunderbolt ports.
Alex Robinson
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
At first, I was skeptical due to the lack of reviews and a big price tag. But I wasn't disappointed! I used this mobo in my first ever personal build, after building about 10-12 other PCs to sell or for other people. I built a Win10/macOS 10.14.5 Hackintosh, following a guide on Tonymacx86 using this exact board. Trying to keep most of the components the same and wanting to provide a solid foundation for my CPU and GPU, I went with this.
Pros:
-Helps keep my i9-9900k cool
-Lots of I/O ports and USBs
-A good number of fan headers, only needed one y-splitter to make my cooler a push & pull (because why not)
-Two M.2 drives with gorgeous covers
-Onboard Wi-Fi (even though I use another card for AirDrop, BT, and WiFi for MacOS)
-Very visually appealing, awesome silver/black/blue tri-tone color scheme.
-Little-to-no GPU sag with Vega 56 Pulse
Cons:
I can't really think of a reasonable con for this board, but if I had to pick one: the Wi-Fi M.2 card on the board is an ugly green card with a big white QR code sticker, which annoyingly interrupts the whole color scheme. It would've been smart for Gigabyte to at least put a black sticker over it, but then again I can too. It's really no big deal, as it can be fixed with a sharpie, tape, sticker, etc.
Conclusion:
I'll admit, a few months ago I was drooling over mainstream brands. (like MSI and ASUS, which are undoubtedly great brands) But Gigabyte produces some high-quality products and this motherboard has officially won me over as an advocate... This isn't cheap silicon junk that heats up like a microwave. It's high quality, suited for whatever workload you through at it. If Gigabyte makes the rest of their products like this motherboard, then you won't be disappointed with anything you buy from them. I'm already looking at their 2080 Super GPU...
Build: i9-9900K, Vega 56 8GB Pulse, Z390 Designare, G.Skill 3000 MHz 32GB, 250GB 970 Evo Plus & 1TB 860 Evo
Pros:
-Helps keep my i9-9900k cool
-Lots of I/O ports and USBs
-A good number of fan headers, only needed one y-splitter to make my cooler a push & pull (because why not)
-Two M.2 drives with gorgeous covers
-Onboard Wi-Fi (even though I use another card for AirDrop, BT, and WiFi for MacOS)
-Very visually appealing, awesome silver/black/blue tri-tone color scheme.
-Little-to-no GPU sag with Vega 56 Pulse
Cons:
I can't really think of a reasonable con for this board, but if I had to pick one: the Wi-Fi M.2 card on the board is an ugly green card with a big white QR code sticker, which annoyingly interrupts the whole color scheme. It would've been smart for Gigabyte to at least put a black sticker over it, but then again I can too. It's really no big deal, as it can be fixed with a sharpie, tape, sticker, etc.
Conclusion:
I'll admit, a few months ago I was drooling over mainstream brands. (like MSI and ASUS, which are undoubtedly great brands) But Gigabyte produces some high-quality products and this motherboard has officially won me over as an advocate... This isn't cheap silicon junk that heats up like a microwave. It's high quality, suited for whatever workload you through at it. If Gigabyte makes the rest of their products like this motherboard, then you won't be disappointed with anything you buy from them. I'm already looking at their 2080 Super GPU...
Build: i9-9900K, Vega 56 8GB Pulse, Z390 Designare, G.Skill 3000 MHz 32GB, 250GB 970 Evo Plus & 1TB 860 Evo
Robert Hirtz
04.12.2020
6/10
Оценка пользователя
Плохо
I love this board, and the Gigabyte Bios is easy to navigate. The bios is laid out kind of weird, but it's functional and once you get used to it, it's great. The board performs great for gaming and content creation. Tons of IO and Thunderbolt. Here's the rub. IF you plan on using higher end M.2. NVME SSD drives, eg Samsung 970 EVO/PRO, and you have a full sized RTX 2070 or 2080 GPU, you will throttle your drives. I have tried both EVO and PRO drives in both slots and the proximity of the M.2. slots to the PCI slots is a flaw. It's never a good idea to put an M.2. drive under a graphics card. The top slot fairs better than the bottom slot, but, because it's situated further back, it sits right above and or below the sweet spot on most graphics cards. I did try budget style ssd and still got very high temperature ratings. The Samsung drives and the budget drive respectively post temps in the upper 50c to 90c ranges under light use. Please note, the Samsung drives mentioned do run hot, upper 30c to 50c is normal. 50 to 90 is not though and suggests the drive is being exposed to excess heat. BTW, I have a full ATX case and plenty of cooling via Noctua fans. Gaming with these configurations caused all 3 drives to throttle in almost any instance. I reached out to Gigabyte about this and they agreed that the placement of the slots is detrimental to functionality under heavy load. A lot of their Aoraus (sp) boards use the same layout. You can search this online too and note there are a lot of complaints about this. I've been using this board for nearly a year now, and recently did the M.2. upgrades. It's a shame, because as I stated earlier, this board is awesome. I'm forced to go back to Asus which puts their M.2. slots far and away from the PCI slots.. My Designaire will be for sale soon on Ebay. I hope this helps out anyone that is looking to build a higher end machine.
Ps Z
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
This motherboard contains abundant I/O and VRM solution that counterparts in $500 price range hardly match. The only drawback is the BIOS being too ugly, but it’s acceptable since Gigabyte moves some of the traditional BIOS settings (like Fan control) into its App Center software.
Michael
04.12.2020
10/10
Оценка пользователя
Великолепно
I bought this board because because of the content creator features, lots of ports, Thunderbolt 3, etc. I didn't need, or want, specific gaming features. So far, it's worked great and I’ve had no issues. I paired this with a i9-9900k CPU, 32 GB of 2666 MHz RAM, NVidia RTX 2070, and a 1 TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus drive.
James N Morrison
04.12.2020
4/10
Оценка пользователя
Ужасно
Board and memory Arrived in 2 days. Yhe new cpu took 5 days longer. Spent the wait time reading the board manual. Some questions arose during the wa,it. Wrote customer support to find that the answer wait time would be 3 to 5 days. I was both surprised and concerned. Surprised by yhe long wait and concerned if problems occurred. When the cpu arrived my concerns were realized. The system would not boot.The fans ran and the read light blinked on the optical drives. They would flash as if they were reading data. The only connected HD is my old C drive containing the version of windows 10 used on my pld board. I During the have inserted the windowa 10 DVD into the optical drive. I then inserted the board driver disk into the other optical drive. The drives were recognized by POST process (flashing lights for a short period of time). None of the boot attempts resulted in the monitor working. All attempts resulted in a black screen. Tried booting using the board HDMI connector and another using a Gigabyte GV-N740D50C-2GI HDMI connector. I also disconnected the HDMI connector, I finally tried with the VGA connector alone. None of the options worked. I have checked the cables and monitor with another computer and it worked fine. I need some advice on how to trouble shoot the board, cpu and memory without a monitor. Since the board is the common item to the rest of the peripherals I and I cant see how to troubleshoot them without the board.
Your present turn around time for responding to questions is making my keeping this board difficult. 3 to 5 days turnaround time only gives me a few questions for answering. Will need better responses.
By the way, my previous problem should be cancelled and. This request is the result of better problem definition.
Your present turn around time for responding to questions is making my keeping this board difficult. 3 to 5 days turnaround time only gives me a few questions for answering. Will need better responses.
By the way, my previous problem should be cancelled and. This request is the result of better problem definition.
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